6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. Shift the transmission to Reverse. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. More or less a TT V8 german car so if the new 8 or 10 speed GM transmission would work where the 6L80E came originally and the CTS V, SS Sedan, and ZL1 Brembo brakes work it could be a great platform. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. The 6L80 (and similar 6L90) is a six-speed automatic transmission built by General Motors at its Willow Run Transmission plant in Ypsilanti, MI.It was introduced in late 2005, and is very similar in design to the smaller 6L45/6L50, produced at GM Powertrain in Strasbourg, France.It features clutch to clutch shifting, eliminating the one-way clutches used on older transmission designs. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. Sixth 1.28 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. if (yr!=2012) Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. Do you think that I might pick up a few more hundredths if I switch the lock on say when I hit second? Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Fourth 1.80 Gilbert, I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. How quickly time passes by. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. Legal/Privacy. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. Pre-Owned. Gm hydro 10 speed. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) Did they release much info about it on the trucks? I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. Reactions: me32. Thanks for the question! Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. yr=d.getFullYear(); Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. (incl. Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro TIPM Problems! vehicle weights. Applications. 2nazty New Member. Your email address will not be published. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. What came first: the chicken or the egg? The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. Reverse 4.87. Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. Now, the high-speed CAN network allows a high rate of data sharing between the units to achieve a collaboration between both engine and transmission functions. Helping transmission shops achievesuccessful and profitable operation. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Allows easy highway cruising, seamless downshifts, Transbrake and 2nd gear (2.34) leave options through multiple templates tuned independently of the engine management system! Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . The case is a cast aluminum alloy. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Second 2.99 The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. There may or may not be codes associated with these complaints. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. Cart The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). 10L80 Transmission. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. Renew Subscription The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. This transmission is out of a Tur. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Online Buyer's Guide Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Nov 26 . or Best Offer . The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. R.F. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. Exceptional torque rating. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. January 2022 Jason, MAZDA6 shuts down while driving fuel pump not monitored, may be no engine light etc. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? The 10L80 moniker is decoded. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. $3,245*. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. JT. Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear.

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